The Science of Perception Box: Neuroscientists explore limits of human perception in hit podcast

Earlier this year, Unlikely Collaborators, in partnership with Pod People, launched Science of Perception Box, a podcast that has quickly captured the attention of listeners eager to unravel the mysteries of human perception. Hosted by renowned neuroscientists Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch, the show explores how our minds construct reality—and how we can push beyond those mental constraints to unlock deeper awareness and understanding.

Within its first week, Science of Perception Box soared to #1 in Science on Apple Podcasts (United States), secured a spot at #33 across all podcasts, and ranked #13 in Science on Spotify. Amazon Music also recognized its impact, featuring the podcast in its Science collection. This remarkable debut underscores a growing public appetite for discussions at the intersection of neuroscience, psychology, and human experience.

At the heart of Science of Perception Box is the Perception Box, a transformative concept developed by Elizabeth R. Koch, founder of Tiny Blue Dot and Unlikely Collaborators. The Perception Box serves as a powerful metaphor for the invisible mental framework that shapes how we interpret reality—formed by our beliefs, biases, and neurological wiring. These unseen barriers define our experiences and limit our ability to engage with perspectives beyond our own.

Dr. Koch and Dr. Berlin use the Perception Box as a lens to dissect how everything from love and mindfulness to psychedelics and personal identity influences our perception of the world. The podcast encourages listeners to question their ingrained assumptions, expand their awareness, and engage with life in a more open and connected way.

PsyPost recently interviewed Koch about the inspiration behind the podcast and the transformative ideas it explores.

PsyPost: What inspired you to create the Science of Perception Box podcast?

Elizabeth R. Koch: I’ve always been fascinated by how two people can look at the same situation and see completely different things. How is that even possible? The answer is that we don’t see the world as it is; we see it through the filter of our own beliefs, experiences, and conditioning. There’s a million scientific explanations for this, but I call it Perception Box – meaning the invisible mental framework that shapes how we interpret everything around us. And most of us don’t even realize it’s there!

I wanted this abstract notion to be as accessible as possible, and to me, podcasts are the most engaging and personal platform out there. They bring emotions into the space so listeners can sense the unsaid, feel the unseen. And unlike reading a book or an article, podcasts allow for nuance— experts offering different perspectives on the same material in live conversation; hosts batting about surprising analogies on-the-fly; guests sharing practical tools to help listeners recognize the workings of their own Perception Box.

At the end of the day, the Science of Perception Box podcast isn’t just about learning—it’s about experiencing a shift in perspective in real time.

How did the idea for using the “Perception Box” as a metaphor for our inner narratives come about? 

Oh god, how much time do you have?  I feel like I’ve been fascinated by how people see the world for as long as I can remember. Even as a kid, I was both curious and unsettled by the fact that two humans could go through the exact same experience but walk away with completely different interpretations. It just didn’t make sense to me. And as I got older, I started to realize this wasn’t just some quirky thing about human perception. It was everywhere. It shaped relationships, caused misunderstandings, upended families, landed people in jail —everything. And it wasn’t just something happening out there—it was happening inside of me as well.

At some point, I started noticing how much my own thoughts and assumptions about myself were shaping my reality. Some part of me knew I was making myself miserable, but I didn’t know how to stop. The stories I told myself – about how I was coming off to people, what I had to prove, what I had to do in order to feel okay inside – felt so real. I kept trying to outrun these stories through achievements, overworking, changing jobs, new relationships, extreme exercise, creative success, numbing out in a myriad of ways – thinking maybe I would find something, or someone, to finally quiet the noise. But no matter what I did, self-doubt and anxiety followed me.

Then, in my 20s, a friend suggested a Vipassana meditation retreat. I’d never meditated for more than 5 minutes in my life, and this was nine days of total silence. It felt ridiculous to even consider taking that much time for myself, but at that point, I was willing to try anything. And what I saw on that retreat changed everything.

For the first time, I became aware of how automatic my thoughts were. How repetitive, how distorted. My mind was constantly jumping to worst-case scenarios, assuming people were judging me, catastrophizing everything, imagining problems that weren’t even real – just a nonstop loop of negative stories and feelings of panic. And because emotions make stories feel objectively true, I believed every single one of them.

That was a huge wake-up call. Soon after the retreat I dove into Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and explored a dozen other modalities, piecing together tools from far-flung places, trying to find the best path to reach the stories buried deep in the unconscious mind and reframe them with love and compassion. When I started sharing what I was discovering with friends, they would say, “Wait, I do that too! What tool did you use?”

That led to impromptu workshops, which grew into longer experiences. But something was still missing. I needed a way to make this concept of how we project unconscious beliefs onto the present moment feel more tangible and accessible. Something people could see and feel. Since I think in visuals, I started describing it as a box.

The more I worked with this box image, the more the concept clicked. When we’re stuck in limiting thinking, the walls close in – they’re contracted. Everything feels small, fixed, inescapable. But when we start questioning those thoughts, letting in other perspectives, the walls expand. More space. More possibilities. More ease.

So that’s how the Perception Box idea came about. It’s not about changing who we are; it’s about seeing that we were never as stuck as we thought.

Could you explain the concept of the “Perception Box” and how it serves as a framework for exploring our biases, beliefs, and brain chemistry?

Absolutely. Perception Box isn’t just a metaphor. It’s a research-backed framework for understanding how our brains interpret the physical sensations in our bodies to shape our reality. Your Perception Box includes everything—genes, cultural background, every lesson you ever learned, traumas and the meaning you made out of them, your physiology, countless other unconscious influences —all these things filter the way you see and interpret the world.

Neuroscience tells us that our brains aren’t passively receiving reality; they’re constructing it. As neuroscientist Dr. Anil Seth says, they’re prediction machines, constantly filling in gaps based on past experiences. But it’s not just our thoughts. Our bodies are a huge part of this process. Before our mind has registered what’s happening, our nervous system has already reacted. The body sends signals—tightness in the chest, a gut feeling, a rush of adrenaline—that the brain interprets through the lens of our past. That’s why two people can experience the same moment but walk away with totally different interpretations. One person might feel safe, while another feels deeply threatened, all because of what happened in the past.

And this is where triggers come in. When we get triggered, it’s not just an emotional response, it’s a full-body experience. Something in the present moment is hitting an old wound, and before we even realize it, we’re reacting as if we’re back in that past moment. The walls of our Perception Box contract, and suddenly we’re completely convinced that our reaction is reality. But here’s the thing: our triggers aren’t telling us what’s true, they’re telling us what’s unresolved. They’re telling us a story we made up a long time ago, when we were too young to understand the behavior of the generally well-meaning adults around us, who were running their own limiting Perception Box stories.

And here’s the thing: You can’t actually break out of your Perception Box. That’s not how it works. We need this filter to make sense of the world. The great news is this box isn’t rigid. While we have no control over what happens, we do have agency over how we respond to what happens, ie, over how we respond to triggers. We can choose to believe the stories in our mind – generally stories that blame other people for how we feel inside – or we can hold those stories loosely and investigate them, seeing how “true” they actually are. We can trace the associated feeling in our bodies to other times we felt the same way, all the way back to the first time we can remember, and act as our own compassionate godparent, addressing the belief from the ground up.

That’s what the Science of Perception Box podcast explores: the neuroscience behind why we react the way we react, and the tools available to help us move into a more compassionate, creative, expansive way of operating.

The show has enjoyed immediate success across platforms. What do you think resonates most with your audience about the intersection of neuroscience and everyday life?

I think people are craving this kind of conversation, one that’s rooted in science but also practical for them personally. In the podcast we move beyond conceptual understanding and explore moments of personal impact – interpersonal conflicts, barriers to self-understanding, the causes of dissatisfaction – and offer exercises to address these issues.

Plus, the guest lineup has been incredible. We’ve had experts like Michael Pollan on how psychedelics shift perception; Dr. Daphna Oyserman on how cultural identity shapes the way we see the world; Dr. Helen Fisher on the brain chemistry of love and human connection; and Dr. Lila Davachi on how memory and time perception influence our reality. Each guest offers real world examples, which makes the research they describe both engaging and actionable. Whether it’s Judson Brewer’s mindfulness techniques for breaking anxious thought loops, Helen Fisher’s insights on love and attachment, or Dacher Keltner’s research on how awe expands our sense of possibility,  and Dr. Boris Heifets on the neuroscience of psychedelics and their potential to rewire the brain.  These conversations don’t just explain how the brain works—they show you how to make friends with neurology and live with more awareness, joy, and human connection.

But honestly, a huge part of the magic is the co-hosts. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch are brilliant. One is more hard-nosed and incisive, the other more playful – when the two meet it’s pure delight. Add in the expert guests, and you’ve got something truly special, something for everyone.

How do you envision the Perception Box framework influencing not just scientific discourse but also everyday self-awareness and decision-making?

Once you understand the mechanism of Perception Box – how its walls expand or contract depending on the stories we tell – light bulbs go off. People who previously felt helpless and alone suddenly gain a sense of agency. Courage. Hope. Awareness alone can be a total game-changer.

Speaking of hope, mine is that the Perception Box framework, shared through the podcast, our Unlikely Collaborators activities, and eventually my book—will help individuals, in moments of external or internal conflict, pause and self-reflect: Why did that comment trigger me? Why do I assume my perspective is the only right one? Imagine if more people started questioning their assumptions instead of doubling down on them. If leaders approached problems with curiosity rather than certainty. This new way of operating would catch fire and eventually, entire communities would be transformed.

I truly believe that only when individuals address their personal, internal conflicts will external conflicts have any hope of being resolved – and that very much includes the political warfare and power struggles that created our current institutional nightmares. The more we recognize and expand our Perception Box, the more we can break free from limiting narratives on a global scale. And that’s when real change happens.

That’s why I am so committed to this work. Because expanding our Perception Box isn’t a self-help exercise; it’s a pathway to a more connected, more compassionate, more collaborative world.